STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
The United States redefined the president of Venezuela.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Yes, the Trump administration has designated Nicolas Maduro as the leader of a foreign terrorist organization. The move is part of an ever-more-explicit pressure campaign. The U.S. has parked a naval flotilla off the Venezuelan coast and has been blowing up boats leaving the country.
INSKEEP: NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez has been covering the entirety of this administration. He's with us once again. Franco, good morning.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: What does it matter if the United States calls Maduro a terrorist?
ORDOÑEZ: I mean, well, it gives the U.S. expanded authority to take military action against Maduro's government. Now, look, this may be, you know, kind of the most over-the-top way to try and scare Maduro to leave on his own, but more and more former officials and international experts that I talk to see the administration potentially gearing up for some type of military strike in Venezuela. The administration named Cartel de los Soles as a foreign terrorist organization and Maduro as its leader. Now, the U.S. says the group is made up of military officers. Venezuela says it's not even an actual group. But I was talking with Ian Bremmer, who leads the political risk consulting firm Eurasia Group, and he told me that the White House has this kind of carrot-and-stick approach going with Maduro, and that using the threat of designating him was kind of a diplomatic pressure tool.
IAN BREMMER: So, I mean, that's something that, you know, had been held out there as a, you better engage with us or else. Well, you've just gotten the or else. So we're definitely closer to military intervention.
ORDOÑEZ: Now, like many analysts, Bremmer doesn't expect a ground invasion, but more likely targeted strikes, and Trump has used targeted strikes before, such as earlier this year in Iran.
INSKEEP: OK. So we have reported in recent days about how the United States has positioned an aircraft carrier and other assets. Now they're bringing four stars to the area. General Dan Caine, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is visiting. What's the significance of that?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, he's the nation's top military officer and a key part of this massive buildup of forces in the Caribbean, including, you know, the Navy's largest aircraft carrier and some 15,000 troops. Now, Mike Pompeo, who was secretary of state during the first Trump administration, he was on Fox yesterday, and he said it was clear that the general was not going to the Caribbean just to thank the troops.
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MIKE POMPEO: I do think that this administration understands that this is all part of a larger puzzle - right? - the Venezuelans supported by the Cubans, the Russians and the Chinese now in our own neighborhood and getting rid of Maduro gives the Venezuelan people a shot and keeps us safer.
INSKEEP: I want to think this through a little bit, Franco. Maduro obviously is not well-liked by the United States. He appears to have fraudulently won election after election. Brutal leader. But at the same time, the president has said, other countries are not our business. I campaigned against foreign wars, he has said. What are the risks to him at home?
ORDOÑEZ: I mean, there are a lot of political implications that Trump needs to weigh. There's a debate whether striking Venezuela fits with America First. Now, the White House says that Trump is prepared to use every element of American power to stop drugs from flooding into the country, and that is America First. But going farther than that carries a risk of longer-term responsibility. Now, of course, there are cases where regime change arguably worked, take Panama in 1989, but there are other examples, including Iraq and Afghanistan, where regime change did not go so well. And Bremmer told me kind of this idea of anything is better than Maduro can quickly fall apart.
INSKEEP: NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez. It's always a pleasure talking with you, sir.
ORDOÑEZ: Always a pleasure, Steve. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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